How to Scale Remote Work Culture Without Forcing It with Camilla Booth

Una: In the last eight years, what has been the most rewarding part of leading the team through all these changes and growth?

Camilla: I think that the most rewarding part is when I see people at the company in person. They are just so happy to be part of the team, and they thank me for it.

We've scaled a lot. We've grown tremendously. Even people who have left the company for whatever reason, I'll still keep in touch with them. I hear Coder's culture is unbeatable compared to other companies.

I still think about the little programs that we put together and the investments that we've made into people. So I feel very, very lucky that I have a job where I can make that change in people's lives.

Una: What has been the hardest part of leading a global team through the ups and downs of the world?

Camilla: COVID stands out a lot. We did do a RIF in 2021, and that was probably the hardest part of my career at Coder because it was just something out of our hands. It was a hard time to look people in the eyes and tell them they no longer have a job.

Una: How big was the team at the time COVID hit?

Camilla: Probably around 18 or 20.

Una: So now you're going fully remote. How did you scale the remote team from 18 to 20 to 170-plus? What were some lessons learned? What did you do that failed? What did you do that worked?

Camilla: We failed a lot. In hindsight, I think that's the only way that you can do better. I'm grateful for that. But yeah, how did we scale? We invested a lot in hiring. COVID forced us to become a global company.

Prior to COVID, we were in Austin predominantly. The talent pool opened and I think when you hire globally, you are building a culture that you can't get if you're only siloed into one location.

Meeting people from all over the world has probably been one of the more rewarding parts. I've been able to learn so much from other people because of their experience and their culture.

Una: You said one thing that so resonated with me, which is about keeping the culture organic. When people come in, you don't tell them what the culture is. Where does that belief and philosophy come from for you? It's very unique, and I believe it's very empowering.

Camilla: If I've just worked at other companies where culture was told to me, I would almost roll my eyes and be like, Says who? Like, what are you talking about? When I really think about Coder's culture, it feels organic because – I know this is gonna sound cheesy, but – it's like a vibe.

When you do off-sites or team events, I feel that vibe a lot more. But we do embrace culture that isn't just related to work. So one of the words that we use internally a lot is "tinker." Tap into your creative side, build fun apps or agents. If you're in HR and you want to try to learn how to code, use your L&D budget for that.

We really embrace people stepping out of their role at work to just try to tinker, be exposed to new tools and trends. If I'm stuck trying to build an agent, I could go to someone in product or engineering that I usually wouldn't meet and get their help, and then I give them a taco, we shout them out. I think letting employees just have fun for some of their job, or go outside of just their day job, makes people feel seen and valued.

Una: When people describe your culture to you, is it what you want it to be? Like, yes, this is exactly what we're trying to build, and I'm so happy that it comes through? Or do people experience it entirely differently?

Camilla: Both. The word "transparency" comes up a lot because we are constantly serving the company and having very open all-hands. We have had really, really amazing quarters and moments, and we have also had really scary and not-so-fun quarters.

Having employees who have been here two, three, four, five-plus years, they've experienced that with me. I remember being in rooms where we were like, So, are we gonna need to do layoffs? Or, we're not getting our bonus this quarter. We have had hard conversations. I think that is special at a startup because you can have those open conversations.

Transparency is a culture buzzword that I hear a lot, which I agree with. One of our culture virtues in Austin was to be weird in a good way, just be authentically yourself, we don't want to hire the carbon copy of Camilla. I want my team to make up for the things that I don't have and vice versa. I want us to collaborate from all different viewpoints.

Una: What do you do as a team to help those flavors come to life? Are there any all-company things where people get to experience the cultures of the world? How do you bring that melting pot together?

Camilla: We have playful Slack channels. In typical fashion, someone will start up a Slack channel, like a food channel, and it'll be buzzing for a few weeks, and then it kind of like dissolves, and then a few weeks later we'll see, like right now we have a fun one called Bravoverse with people into the Bravo shows. I don't know if you watch those, but it's really, really funny.

I love our Kids of Coder one. That one is awesome because we're seeing people all over the world raising their kids in a work environment. It's chaotic, but everyone who has kids can experience similar things in different cultures. I think we lean in on a lot of Slack channels.

In person, I would say it's the unscripted part of our off-site is where cultures come into play. So it's the after-hours. It's okay, we just did eight hours of sessions. Now you have a free-for-all. Go have happy hour or dinner with people. That's when we see a lot of the fun stuff come out. I usually go to my room early on those nights. I do want people to have fun, but I don't need to know how much fun they're having.

Una: You're working across time zones and cultures, which is fun and also comes with a lot of challenges. What do you own when it comes to employee engagement? What do people or leaders in the company organically bring up together?

Camilla: This is where HeyTaco has helped us a lot. For engagement, we have done Employee Appreciation Week, and we set the themes ahead of time. So we'll do like, Monday is the Unsung Hero award, Tuesday is the Cross-Functional Support award.

The Sleeper Award is maybe someone you wouldn't expect. On those weeks, we'll increase people's tacos for the day. So instead of people getting five tacos a day, they'll get 20. That's when employees just go off. They love it. If you look at our usage chart, it was just so high in that week.

It was really fun to see what people were shouting people out for. The engagement was really strong; it just felt like it was the best we could do in a remote world without throwing thousands and thousands of dollars at virtual mixers that are sometimes kind of cheesy because you have to buy all those supplies, and then you jump on Zoom, and it's awkward. This has just felt so organic.

Una: Let's say Monday was Unsung Hero Day. Did you tally up the people who got mentioned the most that day? Or was it anyone you believe was the unsung hero, they get to call out and we're not picking anything on top of that?

Camilla: We leave it open, we don't want to police it. We tried it this year and we're bringing it back right after our performance reviews. I think that's a really healthy time because that's when people are thinking about themselves and others, and you know, that's when some promotions or changes happen.

We don't want too many guardrails around it. I think that's when culture can feel a little bit forced. The data after was really cool.

Una: What are some other things throughout the year that you do? Was there something that you started early on and you're like, This is way too forced, there's way too much going on? In terms of the happy hours and the trivia and all the things that people can participate in. Did you ever do any of those?

Camilla: This is where I'm so happy that I was at an early-stage company where I could do a lot of trial and error. From March 2020 through all of 2021, it was like the wild, wild west. We were trying every little thing possible. We had a tarot card reader come, we had a paint and sip, we did a scavenger hunt in people's homes, we did a daily coffee morning stand-up. It starts off really strong, like 80% participation, and then week by week, it dies down to where it's just me and one other person who's just being nice on the call with me. And nothing was sticky.

That is actually when we got HeyTaco, and it was probably the least amount of effort that I had to do. I didn't have to force it down people's throats or schedule meetings to explain how it worked or put together a ton of resources. It just worked. We installed it. We made its own Slack channel. We call it "Thanks." New hires would automatically be put in that channel and they would get tacos. So then, by the end of the day, they wanted to give tacos.

So that was the most organic culture-building thing that I think was intentional, but at the same time, we didn't realize it. Back in 2021, it was very chaotic and I was just trying to do anything that I thought could make our culture strong. I wasn't thinking a year to three years ahead because I was so consumed with the world and scaling.

Una: Everyone likes the taco. Do you think that launching something that required the least amount of effort, but it took off, is what changed your belief about letting things emerge versus trying to force, for lack of a better word?

Camilla: One hundred percent. I had an office coordinator, and I was literally taking up 80% of her day forcing her to come do all this different creative stuff. Once I really took a step back I was like, this is so cheesy.

I fell into the trap. Every company was doing this, it was just so common. I just didn't have the time for that once we hit this other stage of growth. I was like, people are happy with a good paycheck. We put a lot of effort into building a good comp philosophy, good benefits.

We pay attention to surveys, engagement surveys specifically. And, you know, let's try utilizing some simplicity. People are busy, they don't want to track a million Slack channels, but if we can home in on one and make it fun, that works. So yeah, in the beginning it was a lot of trial and error.

Una: Let's say you were mentoring someone starting in your role. What would you tell them? What is Camilla's philosophy about building culture, how would you summarize it or describe it?

Camilla: I would say run away from a company if you don't have a CEO who wants to talk about culture. I think if you don't have the support from the core leadership team or the CEO, all your ideas and budget and everything, it's not going to be taken seriously. My advice is to really strive to pick a thought partner and a manager who can support you there.

Una: Do you think you can change someone's mindset about culture actually being important?

Camilla: Yeah, one hundred percent. I think that's in the data. I have used taco reports for a lot of data polls and comparisons. I've used it to look at trends around attrition. I have had people in leadership maybe not reject tacos, but they just don't understand it. They almost find it to be a little silly. I'm a serious person or, you know, I don't know why I need to embrace it. But when I show them the data, they get it.

When you look at attrition, you look at stay surveys, and all of those things. If themes keep popping up, you really need to pay attention and figure out a way to bottle that up and scale it if it's working.

Una: Before we get into tips on what to do, are there any other things you'd advise others to beware of?

Camilla: I used to love doing a product call. I love a tool. I used to get in this trap, the demos would be amazing. I'd be like, my gosh, we need this.

I didn't know I could ask for longer pilots or that I could do as many reference tracks as I wanted. I think my advice would be that it may look like a nice, shiny new toy. Do your due diligence, ask for the reference tracks, ask about pilots, have a good review of the contract, and really understand what the terms mean.

Implementation, too. That's been challenging. A tool might say it integrates with your HRIS, but it might only integrate with your HRIS if it's a pro version. Sometimes people selling you these tools, they just want to sell you it. They don't tell you all the intricacies that go beyond just purchasing it. So I would say really understand the admin behind it and setting it up.

I think once you have implemented something, pay close attention to usage and know when to pull the plug. It's okay if things don't take off immediately. Maybe you need to tweak some of the programming, messaging, and people may not just understand it, but I worry about putting a lot of time and effort into something where the ROI is just not there.

Una: What are some things that you would recommend to someone that you would actually want to do when it comes to culture?

Camilla: I would definitely survey and stay on top of programs you put in place. It's very easy to plan through something, set it up, and then just check on it when something's broken. I wouldn't wait until something breaks. I would set reminders and audits of how things are working a lot sooner than you would think.

A company with 25 people, it's much easier to pivot, whereas 200 people is a lot more challenging. I would get on top of things faster and that's also based on experience. There were a lot of things that I would set up, and then I would only revisit them like nine, 10, 12 months down the line. And I'm like, my gosh, no one's even opened this page since February and it's October. Like, what am I doing? That took me months to set up.

Una: What's your review cycle these days now that you've learned all those hard lessons? When you put something in, how fast do you review it and rip it out if it's not working?

Camilla: Every three months. I think in quarters. Even in my personal life, I'll say to my husband, Let's do this next quarter. And he's like, can you stop?

Una: What is your favorite taco you've ever received?

Camilla: When I got promoted to VP, it was really nice, the kind things people were saying. Or I just had my eighth anniversary come up. That was really special. You remember that. One thing I have told a couple of people on my team is, when you're having a really, really bad day, collect those messages so you can go back to it. And a lot of that comes in the taco channel.

If you get that like three-sentence shout-out from the CEO that you met like a few times but you did something great, save that. And then when you're having a really shitty day, open that and be like, you know what? I am a badass. I know what I'm doing.

Una: You have five tacos to give to someone every single day to appreciate them. So today, who would you like to give your tacos to and why?

Camilla: I want to give tacos to my recruiting team. In the last year, we've doubled the company and each recruiter has about 10 open recs. So we have 30-plus openings at Coder. Check out our careers page.

They are just so on top of it and they're such culture champions. We do a ton of candidate surveys, we're averaging like a nine out of 10 on almost every survey. So I am beyond grateful for them.

And then I think my remaining taco would probably go to my CEO. I know that sounds like I'm sucking up, but he's a wonderful champion of culture. HeyTaco existed before he even joined the company, and he embraced it and wanted to keep it and help me grow it. So yeah, he would get my fifth taco.