When Doug and I started Amazing Teams in 2023, I secretly hoped someone would hand us the recipe. It would have been cool to learn and share something like: take three parts trust, blend with two parts feedback, and top with a sprinkle of off-site events. Bake for one calendar year, and enjoy.
Forty-one conversations later, I can confirm that there is no recipe. Not one guest had a formula, but what they had was better. They had stories, lessons, failures, and a refreshing willingness to tell us what didn't work.
We talked to athletic coaches, founders, a West Point grad, a Scrum Master, an investor with 55 startups in his portfolio, and a Chief People Officer who once announced a recognition challenge by wearing a unicorn costume. They came to us from different industries, led teams of all different sizes, and presented very different cultures.
Still, conversation after conversation, many of the same ideas kept bubbling up. Here are the seven that stood out after conversations with 43 people about what it takes to build an amazing team.
And because we'd be hypocrites otherwise, there's a taco for every single guest at the end.
1. Habits beat hero moments.
Nobody we interviewed built a great team with one big initiative. They built it with small things, done on repeat, long after they stopped being exciting.
Stephen Lord put a box in the office where engineers dropped thank-you cards, and read them out every Friday. Francesco Vetica spends five minutes after every meeting giving feedback on the notes. Jason Piasecki has written the same one-page Monday email for more than five years. Heather Haas reviews her day on the drive home and makes herself send a quick note, text, or call to whoever did great work.
None of that would make a press release. All of it works.
At the end of Season 1, Doug and I wrote this down, and it's held up for three more seasons. Hero efforts don't make amazing teams, habits do.
2. Kind isn't nice.
If I had to pick one line that rewired my brain, it's this one from Stephen Lord: "A kind person tells you if you've got some salad in your teeth; a nice person doesn't."
I've thought about that salad more than I'd like to admit. And recently, while out for dinner, I noticed a friend had salad in her teeth. Do I tell them? I thought of Stephen, decided to live through a moment of awkwardness, and told them.
So many of us are nice at work. We soften, we wait, we hint. Claire Lew called it protecting the "illusion of being a nice person," and Doug admitted on air that he's guilty of it. (So am I.)
Claire's fix is to lead with the headline. "I noticed the email to the last client was sloppy." Then explain. I remind myself of this before hard conversations. It's never as bad as we think it is, and the longer we wait, the worse it gets.
My own test now is to picture the person getting home and realizing they had lettuce in their teeth all day, and nobody said a word. If that feels bad, say the thing.
Two more tools I stole from guests:
- Lisa Lie's question: "How would you rate my contribution out of 10?" Nobody says 10. Then ask what a 10 would look like. Instant, safe, useful feedback.
- Hannah Munizza's "wrong rock” boss: Sending someone to fetch a rock with no guidance, then saying "that's the wrong rock." Vague asks aren't kind, either. If you can't describe what good looks like, you're not ready to delegate it.
3. Treat people like adults.
This is my favorite thread across all four seasons, and the one I'd tattoo on every policy handbook if I could.
Michaela Flatau's team at Defense Unicorns gets a $2,600 home office budget with no approvals. She says, “If you buy a bathtub with your money, great." If someone misuses it, she has a conversation with that one person instead of writing a policy for 200. Since they bought a bathtub, they now don't have enough money for a new chair. It's a tradeoff they get to live with. As she put it, "We're all adults here, and we all want to do well at work and to treat people like children makes them…maybe want to rebel."
The same idea showed up everywhere:
- Katie Regan doesn't ask her team when they're on vacation or online. "I just expect that the work gets done, and it gets done really well, and it gets done on time." Her team builds their work around their life, not the other way around.
- Justin Tsatsa keeps almost every Fetch event voluntary, because trust is one of their pillars.
- Martin Gourdeau shares the real business numbers with his whole team, because "If there's anything you don't share, people will fill in the void." He didn’t do this to be edgy, he did it because informed people perform better.
- Lav Crnobrnja realized his team checking everything with him was handing responsibility back, not respect. Now he sets goals and judges results instead of tactics.
Most rules are written for the 1% and quietly insult the other 99%. The guests I admire most wrote for the 99% and handled the 1% one conversation at a time.
4. Forced fun dies. Fun on purpose lives.
Camilla Booth gave us the most painfully relatable story of the whole show. In 2020, Coder tried everything. They hired a tarot card reader, hosted a virtual sip-and-paint, threw scavenger hunts in people's homes. Every event started at about 80% attendance and shrank week by week until it was "Me and one other person who's just being nice on the call with me."
We've all been that one other person. (It was nice of us to show up, but was it kind to keep the charade going?)
Justin Tsatsa saw the same thing at Fetch. More virtual events meant more Zoom fatigue and the same few faces. He found that less is more. A bingo card, trivia at the end of the town hall, a company recipe book. And he counted a happy hour where four people showed up as a win, because those four had real conversations with people they'd never met.
The most fun teams we talked to weren't less playful. They were more intentional about it.
- Skyler Birk-Stachon's team names every meeting after a TV show, and a random host picks the theme music.
- Diego Lugli's crew at Pirate Ship all have artist-drawn pirate avatars instead of headshots. Diego's Halloween version is "Diegore Ugly."
- Michaela Flatau announced a day of bonus tacos by wearing her unicorn costume.
Michaela also gave the warning label I think every culture person needs. “If a company is getting too corporate and then you show up in a unicorn costume, it might feel performative." Fun only lands on a foundation of trust. Build that first, then bring the costume.
5. Write down what's already true.
I've sat through values workshops. You probably have, too. Someone writes "Integrity" on a whiteboard, everyone nods, it ends up on a mug, and nothing changes.
Aaron Dignan from Rocket Money explained why better than anyone: "Most values projects are doomed because they focus on what we want to be true instead of what is true."
So Rocket Money did something different. Julie Leclercq and Aaron collected stories from 53 people with three questions:
- When did an interaction here make you think, "This is why I work here"?
- What about how we work have you never seen anywhere else?
- What do you brag about to your friends?
They found the patterns, kept the three that mattered most, and launched them with a video starring the actual people who told the stories. Employees applauded at a values launch. I saw the video, and it was awesome.
Bryan Christiansen at Limble got to the same place from the founder's chair. Pick values that describe who you already are, not who you wish you were. His example made me laugh out loud: if customers annoy you, do not make "customer obsessed" a core value. "You're going to have a nightmare trying to live it."
And once they're written down, put them to work. Limble's tacos can only be earned by living the values. Jason Piasecki's team at Revel built theirs by describing their best people by name, and checks every quarter whether each one is still true. As Aaron put it, the job is "giving something that's true a handle that someone can pick up."
6. Specific gratitude lasts for years.
You'd expect a recognition company's podcast to talk about gratitude. What I didn't expect was how long specific thanks sticks around.
- Katie Regan's former intern has kept every handwritten note Katie wrote her since 2011. Her words: "Sorry if that's creepy, but they just mean a lot to me."
- Heather Haas still has the "Clay compliment" cards her assistant principal left in her mailbox as a young teacher. In a shoebox, decades later.
- Stephen Lord's gratitude box at Exclaimer overflowed until about 800 uncollected thank-you cards covered the walls.
These weren’t generic “thank you” cards, they named a thing someone did. That's the whole trick. As we said in our Cringe No More episode, even 1% more specific makes a huge difference.
Then Marc Cenedella dropped the mic by bringing up Marcus Aurelius, whose Meditations opens by thanking 26 people, and said gratitude is "good for one to do to others. It's even better for what it does to you yourself." Lloyd Fobi said almost the same thing about empathy: it "does more for the person giving than the person receiving."
Our research with the University of Waterloo, University of Illinois, and University of Wisconsin backs this up. Teams that rank people by how much recognition they give send 25% more recognition than teams with no leaderboard. Rank by what people receive, and it backfires. Michaela Flatau's team figured this out on their own. If you give five tacos every day for a month, you get double the tacos to give next month. People schedule their tacos to qualify.
Recognition is felt by the person receiving it. Gratitude is felt by the person giving it. Sounds like a perfect example of a win-win situation to me.
7. Let people grow, even out the door.
The most generous idea we heard on the show is to develop people so well they could leave, and celebrate it when they do.
Diego Lugli at Pirate Ship runs a Cadet program. It’s a six-month internal rotation onto a real project with a manager who has to mentor you. Their customer support turnover sits at 2 to 3%. And when someone they developed outgrows the company? "It's also like a celebration because that means that our programs did well." Some of them come back later into roles that didn't exist before.
Lloyd Fobi said it best when he said to treat your teammates "so well that they want to stay, but training them even better so that they can go work anywhere."
Growth also means letting people fall on their faces a little. Carl Smith let a junior project manager run a risky project he had doubts about. It blew up. Carl took the angry client call, then had the client apologize to the team for his harsh words. "If I tell them and I save them and I pull them back, then all they're gonna say is, ‘Carl told me, Carl wouldn't let me,’" he explains.
It starts with leaders admitting they're still growing, too. Lloyd called three rival coaches to ask what he was doing wrong. Sanket Merchant asks founders what he could have done better after every board meeting. Sam Reilley rebuilt BSC's top learning award when she noticed people were collecting certificates instead of becoming leaders.
What I'm taking with me:
If there's one thing every guest had in common, it's that none of them claimed to have it figured out. Morgan Witham ended her four-day week rollout deck with a slide titled "Shit We Don't Have the Answer To." Marc Cenedella deleted his 1:1s, realized two months later that was a mistake, and brought them back. Camilla Booth audits her programs every quarter and kills what nobody uses.
Marc summed it up: "Management is a fun experiment. I don't know if anybody…has said that they've solved it."
That's the most freeing thing I learned in four seasons. You don't need the perfect program. Try something small, say what you don't know. Treat people like the capable adults they are. Notice the person delivering the wood, and then do it again next week.
And say thank you, specifically, to the people who helped you get here. So here goes.
A taco for each of our 43 guests
Season 1
- Daniel Todd, for being our very first guest and admitting that hiring for skills alone nearly sank his company. And for having me at Influence Mobile's offsite in Vegas!
- Erin Corr Miller, for "brazen trust" and "your first mistake is on me." Also for once being Doug's happiness coach, something he still talks about!
- Michael Stevens & Mary Gretz, for interviewing candidates by group text, GIFs included, and for being the most fun and team-building lawyers I have ever met.
- Diana Futrovsky, for the flying V, and for showing that secure leaders drop back so the whole flock goes farther.
- Katie Regan, for "I appreciate you" over "thank you," and for teams that build their work around their life. And for capturing her networking expertise in her new book - Intention. A must-read!
- Chris Coffey, for the "working with me" file, an open-door quitting policy, and the power of small wins.
- Brad Williams, for the Slack bot that pairs three random teammates, and a loser award that is literally a singing pickle, and for being a member of the 10 Year Taco Club.
- Liz Hofreuter, for "the swing," and reminding us from the coxswain's seat that teams pull best in sync.
- Lloyd Fobi, for calling three rival coaches to ask what he was doing wrong. That takes guts.
- Malia Shoji, for butterflies that reward growth instead of points (and for admitting she borrowed the idea from tacos), and her friendship!
- Steve Hedrick, for sending Grubhub cards so every site eats together. Teams that eat together stay together. So do those that train together. 💪🏻
- Jason Piasecki, for a full nonprofit rebrand in about 32 hours, with the whole team showing up even though it was optional.
- Aaron Schmookler, for enrollment over compliance, and reminding us that "yes, and" doesn't mean agreeing.
- Jordan Hirsch & Sarah Filman, for getting Doug and me to play improv games live on air. Brave of you.
- Eddie Geller, for insisting culture can be measured, and that it belongs to the CEO, not HR.
Season 2
- Lola Han, for "cringe or binge," and reminding everyone that fair pay comes before free llama rides. And for your friendship!
- Bryan Christiansen, for MOTH TACOS, and holding out for "no a**hole" when HR wanted "no jerk."
- Lisa Lie, for "Rate my contribution out of 10." I've stolen it, and I'm not giving it back.
- Chris Hull, for leading adults with 7th-grade-classroom wisdom, and the all-stars debate we still disagree on.
- Francesco Vetica, for five minutes of feedback after every meeting, and giving tacos to people on their way out the door.
- Sondre Rasch, for flat salaries, bird avatars, and warning that undefined culture is "up for grabs."
- Lav Crnobrnja, for hiring "diamonds in the rough," and noticing that "checking with me" was really handing the responsibility back.
- Heather Haas, for seeing the man who delivers wood every Monday, and reminding leaders that recognition is free.
Season 3
- Skyler Birk-Stachon, for Skittles every 25 cold calls, pushups for every rejection, and meetings named after TV shows.
- Morgan Witham, for the "Shit We Don't Have the Answer To" slide, and being honest that a four-day week isn't a silver bullet.
- Marc Cenedella, for "just delete half of them," and Marcus Aurelius thanking 26 people.
- Carl Smith, for the Post-it story and "I'm not building a company. I'm building a team." And for the reminder to ask myself 'what would Jimmy do' every time we hop on a call.
- Hannah Munizza, for naming the "wrong rock” boss. We've all had one. Some of us have been one. And for 15+ years of friendship!
- Stephen Lord, for the salad in your teeth, and 800 thank-you cards on the walls.
- Claire Lew, for "It's never as bad as we think it is," which I now say to myself before every hard conversation.
- Sanket Merchant, for being a VC we'd all want on our board, and asking founders what he could have done better.
- Katy Carrigan, for exposing the 10-year-anniversary computer mouse as something to NOT get, and making gifting modern, sleek, thoughtful, and specific - everything but a chore.
Season 4
- Camilla Booth, for admitting the tarot reader didn't work, teaching everyone to keep a boast file, and reminding us we all used to be individual contributors at some point.
- Martin Gourdeau, for "Don't ask the question if you don't want the answer."
- Michaela Flatau, for the unicorn costume reveal, Tacopocalypse, and the bathtub budget. And boundless energy!!!
- Justin Tsatsa, for counting a four-person happy hour as a win. It was. And a perfect podcast voice–he's open for voiceover gigs, y'all!
- Sam Reilley, for SNL-style All Five jackets, and raising the bar when certificates stopped meaning leadership.
- Diego Lugli, for the Pirate Cadet program, 2 to 3% support turnover, and an avatar named "Diegore Ugly."
- Sarah Russell, for karate belts for inbox habits, and "Yes or no, never maybe."
- Julie Leclercq & Aaron Dignan, for 53 stories, and giving something true "a handle that someone can pick up."
And one more taco, to Doug, my co-host for the majority of these conversations. Your in-the-moment questions that made us all laugh (and have more fun) were my favorite. Cringe vs. binge – who thinks of that?!
And to everyone who listened: thank you. We appreciate you. 🌮
